Economies

[clatra]

I do not think there is a gold economy in TW. Gold is difficult for new players to get but once you reach a certain level and buy all the statues you want, gold ceases to matter. While axe wear, seed purchases, and fence refreshes are meant to be significant gold sinks, these expenditures are insignificant for smart players.

Also gold is rarely traded to others, even including the volume of auctions, because of its relative worth. This is in contrast to the economies of fibers (which has been all but ruined by super machines), leaves (a minor economy but still bigger than fibers), poisoned strawbs (minor), tree seeds (minor), and toadkens (minor but growing).

The truly significant economy in TW is one that few players think about in economic terms but probably has the greatest worth and the greatest "trading volume" -- land. The admins are concerned about "the economy" and land availability, to varying degrees, so I am starting this thread with the assertion that the only economy that is worth worrying about is land.

Critique away but realize if you are a lowbie, you very well may have gold issues but if you stick with TW long enough you will find gold does, in fact, grow on trees.

[clatra]

I do not think there is a gold economy in TW. Gold is difficult for new players to get but once you reach a certain level and buy all the statues you want, gold ceases to matter. While axe wear, seed purchases, and fence refreshes are meant to be significant gold sinks, these expenditures are insignificant for smart players.

Also gold is rarely traded to others, even including the volume of auctions, because of its relative worth. This is in contrast to the economies of fibers (which has been all but ruined by super machines), leaves (a minor economy but still bigger than fibers), poisoned strawbs (minor), tree seeds (minor), and toadkens (minor but growing).

The truly significant economy in TW is one that few players think about in economic terms but probably has the greatest worth and the greatest "trading volume" -- land. The admins are concerned about "the economy" and land availability, to varying degrees, so I am starting this thread with the assertion that the only economy that is worth worrying about is land.

Critique away but realize if you are a lowbie, you very well may have gold issues but if you stick with TW long enough you will find gold does, in fact, grow on trees.

[Abyss Rose]

oh I must be a lowbie then. I'm not saying I always have gold problems but lately I do. In fact I'm over extended and borrowing money. but thats okay. I'm just a lowbie after all.

[Abyss Rose]

oh I must be a lowbie then. I'm not saying I always have gold problems but lately I do. In fact I'm over extended and borrowing money. but thats okay. I'm just a lowbie after all.

[EmperorWu]

Ore is pretty decent.

Aren't we prohibited from selling "trading" land though?

[EmperorWu]

Ore is pretty decent.

Aren't we prohibited from selling "trading" land though?

[Viceroy Twisti]

Why would you be ? If anything, this would be encouraged so land gets distributed to more people. The only thing we would hate to see is land barons being sold more land.

[Viceroy Twisti]

Why would you be ? If anything, this would be encouraged so land gets distributed to more people. The only thing we would hate to see is land barons being sold more land.

[clatra]

Twisti, you sound biased against land barons. Are you biased against leaf barons? Toadken barons?

Land has some very unique properties so it is understandable why anyone would not like folks hoarding land. And I know the answer to this but let's see who else does: why shouldn't the admins just create more land whenever it is needed?

[clatra]

Twisti, you sound biased against land barons. Are you biased against leaf barons? Toadken barons?

Land has some very unique properties so it is understandable why anyone would not like folks hoarding land. And I know the answer to this but let's see who else does: why shouldn't the admins just create more land whenever it is needed?

[Rizes Shadow]

Is there actually any reason for anyone to actually properly answer to you?

Seriously, you are just trolling around. You don't really care about any of this, you are just here to argue. That's all.

I for one understand completely if no admin or viceroy won't ever answer to your questions.

One day you might actaully have a proper question, but people will just ignore all your points and arguments, because
a known troll such as yourself made them. You should consider that.

[Rizes Shadow]

Is there actually any reason for anyone to actually properly answer to you?

Seriously, you are just trolling around. You don't really care about any of this, you are just here to argue. That's all.

I for one understand completely if no admin or viceroy won't ever answer to your questions.

One day you might actaully have a proper question, but people will just ignore all your points and arguments, because
a known troll such as yourself made them. You should consider that.

[clatra]

Speaking of trolling, do you have ANYTHING to add to the thread, Rizes Shadow?

[clatra]

Speaking of trolling, do you have ANYTHING to add to the thread, Rizes Shadow?

[Rizes Shadow]

I have already added far more than you have.

[Rizes Shadow]

I have already added far more than you have.

[Viceroy Twisti]

Twisti, you sound biased against land barons. Are you biased against leaf barons? Toadken barons?

Land has some very unique properties so it is understandable why anyone would not like folks hoarding land. And I know the answer to this but let's see who else does: why shouldn't the admins just create more land whenever it is needed?

We try that every now and then. And look at the new worlds. There is no open land, and the existing land is fenced off by relatively few people. Older players have simply grown so greedy that they fence up land "in advance", in case they will need it in the future. Adding more land would not change that unless we increased the existing land by an order of magnitude, and while another continent or two wouldn't really hurt performance, the above certainly would.

The reason I am "biased" against land barons is quite simple - land is the only resource you can exclusively gain by taking it away from others. New people need land and have no way of getting it other than as handouts and charity from older players.

And let's drop this pretense of economy - this about simple survival. A new player who spends a week looking for land, doesn't find any and is too proud, foreign, retarded, lazy or whatever to beg other people for their table scraps will quit, which as far as this game goes means die.

[Viceroy Twisti]

Twisti, you sound biased against land barons. Are you biased against leaf barons? Toadken barons?

Land has some very unique properties so it is understandable why anyone would not like folks hoarding land. And I know the answer to this but let's see who else does: why shouldn't the admins just create more land whenever it is needed?

We try that every now and then. And look at the new worlds. There is no open land, and the existing land is fenced off by relatively few people. Older players have simply grown so greedy that they fence up land "in advance", in case they will need it in the future. Adding more land would not change that unless we increased the existing land by an order of magnitude, and while another continent or two wouldn't really hurt performance, the above certainly would.

The reason I am "biased" against land barons is quite simple - land is the only resource you can exclusively gain by taking it away from others. New people need land and have no way of getting it other than as handouts and charity from older players.

And let's drop this pretense of economy - this about simple survival. A new player who spends a week looking for land, doesn't find any and is too proud, foreign, retarded, lazy or whatever to beg other people for their table scraps will quit, which as far as this game goes means die.

[EmperorWu]

I don't care much about this argument but I have had a few nagging thoughts that might fit here.

Where are the players that can't find land? I swear I've tried to encourage quite a few people to get to F5 and get their own land. I even offered to give them the resources they might need to get set up if they didn't have them. I've been met pretty much with complete indifference, they all would rather stay with their barons(?) it seems.

Also what classifies someone as a baron?

Edit: I only had one person accept my help to get land, that was on E5. The person I helped before that turned down open the land and chose to instead use a base I had...

[EmperorWu]

I don't care much about this argument but I have had a few nagging thoughts that might fit here.

Where are the players that can't find land? I swear I've tried to encourage quite a few people to get to F5 and get their own land. I even offered to give them the resources they might need to get set up if they didn't have them. I've been met pretty much with complete indifference, they all would rather stay with their barons(?) it seems.

Also what classifies someone as a baron?

Edit: I only had one person accept my help to get land, that was on E5. The person I helped before that turned down open the land and chose to instead use a base I had...

[Viceroy Twisti]

People who quit because there's no free land typically aren't really all that active in the community. On account of them having quit and all. And people who already have land have no real reason to move to another place.

[Viceroy Twisti]

People who quit because there's no free land typically aren't really all that active in the community. On account of them having quit and all. And people who already have land have no real reason to move to another place.

[arp]

Also gold is rarely traded to others, even including the volume of auctions, because of its relative worth. This is in contrast to the economies of fibers (which has been all but ruined by super machines), leaves (a minor economy but still bigger than fibers), poisoned strawbs (minor), tree seeds (minor), and toadkens (minor but growing).

I will gladly take any of these items off of your hands if they are of so little value.  Particularly the leaves and fibers...

[arp]

Also gold is rarely traded to others, even including the volume of auctions, because of its relative worth. This is in contrast to the economies of fibers (which has been all but ruined by super machines), leaves (a minor economy but still bigger than fibers), poisoned strawbs (minor), tree seeds (minor), and toadkens (minor but growing).

I will gladly take any of these items off of your hands if they are of so little value.  Particularly the leaves and fibers...

[clatra]

I am getting mixed messages from admins about what growing TW means and can TW handle the growth. If the servers and whatnot can handle another continent, by all means make it and only teleport folks there who have no land (it worked well in the past and will work well again).

Regarding player retention, are we (the community and the admins, together) trying to retain every new player? Or should we weed out players that cannot handle harsh tongue-lashings? Or those who cannot handle getting raided? Or those who never intend to donate?

How in the world is a person who jumps and either needs fencible land immediately after jumping or will quit the type of player that will stick with TW long term? Particularly when noob world is a perfectly good place to work on skills while starting the sometimes long journey of finding fencible land. I have said it before but it bears repeating: spoonfeeding land to a person is in no way helping to retain him as a player.

[clatra]

I am getting mixed messages from admins about what growing TW means and can TW handle the growth. If the servers and whatnot can handle another continent, by all means make it and only teleport folks there who have no land (it worked well in the past and will work well again).

Regarding player retention, are we (the community and the admins, together) trying to retain every new player? Or should we weed out players that cannot handle harsh tongue-lashings? Or those who cannot handle getting raided? Or those who never intend to donate?

How in the world is a person who jumps and either needs fencible land immediately after jumping or will quit the type of player that will stick with TW long term? Particularly when noob world is a perfectly good place to work on skills while starting the sometimes long journey of finding fencible land. I have said it before but it bears repeating: spoonfeeding land to a person is in no way helping to retain him as a player.

[clatra]

I will gladly take any of these items off of your hands if they are of so little value.  Particularly the leaves and fibers...

I said the economies were minor, not their worth.

Would you consider trading some of your land for leaves and fibers?

[clatra]

I will gladly take any of these items off of your hands if they are of so little value.  Particularly the leaves and fibers...

I said the economies were minor, not their worth.

Would you consider trading some of your land for leaves and fibers?

[Viceroy Twisti]

It's easy saying that when you are as old as us, and there was plenty of land everywhere and easy to find.

[Viceroy Twisti]

It's easy saying that when you are as old as us, and there was plenty of land everywhere and easy to find.

[clatra]

Where are the players that can't find land?

One school of thought says there are untold numbers of players who want to play TW as a single-player game and, so, do not want to ask others for help. These folks are assumed to often quit if they cannot start a base soon after jumping. I asked Travis if he has some metrics for how long players tend to play after jumping but he did not appear to have that measured in any meaningful way.

As for vocal newish players, nearly all of them find land in a reasonable period of time, imho.

[clatra]

Where are the players that can't find land?

One school of thought says there are untold numbers of players who want to play TW as a single-player game and, so, do not want to ask others for help. These folks are assumed to often quit if they cannot start a base soon after jumping. I asked Travis if he has some metrics for how long players tend to play after jumping but he did not appear to have that measured in any meaningful way.

As for vocal newish players, nearly all of them find land in a reasonable period of time, imho.

[arp]

If you had enough leaves, I could be convinced to part with some of my land.  I may be among a minority of players, but I consider the possible ranks I could gain from a large amount of raw materials to be much more valuable than a couple of world squares, especially now that wood value got nerfed.

[arp]

If you had enough leaves, I could be convinced to part with some of my land.  I may be among a minority of players, but I consider the possible ranks I could gain from a large amount of raw materials to be much more valuable than a couple of world squares, especially now that wood value got nerfed.