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Toadwater  |  Toadwater Inn  |  The Padded Cell  |  Topic: To All the Sandboxes I've Loved Before 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: To All the Sandboxes I've Loved Before  (Read 5568 times)
clatra
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« on: May 31, 2011, 08:58:35 pm »

I had my very own sandbox. It was surrounded by clouds. It was fun for a while. Sandboxes shared by other sandbox lovers were below the clouds. I take a deep breath and jump.

I discover fenced sandboxes. Big sandboxes.
 Shocked

I want to fence a sandbox. I search far and wide for a sandbox to fence.

One sandbox was criss-crossed with hoards -- a sandbox hater put them there. My family builds a funny fence anyway. We like our funny, tiny sandbox.

We meet another sandbox lover who destroys some hoards. We build more fences and have a bigger sandbox. Sandbox hater be damned.
 Cool

We meet more sandbox lovers nearby. One is not very nice and evicts us.

Luckily I like to explore the world of sandboxes. I find a sandbox untouched by sandbox haters. I build more fences and move in.

I explore more over the years. I find more sandboxes untouched by sandbox haters. I fence more. I also grow stronger and can better deal with sandbox haters, not nice neighbors, and others.

I help many other sandbox lovers. I can easily give and share sandboxes with others. I love sandboxiness in all of its sandboxy glory!
 Cheesy

Now there is a growing threat to sandboxiness. Sandbox haters in the government. These sandbox haters think they know best and are limiting sandbox shapes.

Few sandbox lovers will have the glorious experience I have had. Less sandboxiness leads to less creativity and fewer dreams. Sandbox lovers everywhere cry.
 Cry
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 09:06:16 pm »

I played in my first sandbox 3 months ago. I've felt plenty creative and am a huge sandbox lover now. Wink
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clatra
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2011, 06:35:32 am »

E6, now known as Flinntville, used to be a sandbox that I fenced most of. I decided to open up the continent to the public. It was not long before a player or two, excited about a continent free of government grass, moved in. All was right with the world.

Flinnt, if you care to comment, tell everyone how excited you were at having dang near (and eventually all of) a continent to yourself. Was it your dream come true? How long had you waited to have a continent? Did you enjoy having it?
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2011, 06:39:49 am »

The Government just changed hands.  It may be time to send up a vote again on the use of government grass.
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I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day...

Above all. . .Semper Fi
A Stranger
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 10:11:40 am »

If people are to have be able to have whole continents it should be at least possible to take them.

And yes I mean chop the fences.
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 10:22:25 am »

Back in my day people didn't need government grass in order to take over peoples' bases. *waves cane*
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8:59:41 pm OUCH!! [FFFUUUU]Pending got an annoying popup farming.
8:57:23 pm OUCH!! [FFFUUUU]Pending got an annoying popup farming.

They ARE annoying.
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 10:50:08 am »

Gov grass is just so people cant just make super high level fencing no one could ever chop and put a tiny strip (which they still complain about having to check on) that they up untill the rule change only have to refresh like once in a blue moon and have 5000 times the land as those who have 80 times as much fence.

Being against it if you dont have a continent is like being in favour of tax cuts for the rich (irl) when your really poor.

*I just think that if you REALLY wanted that much space you should be prepared to work/ fight for it, and be active enough to justify it*
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 10:57:39 am by A Stranger » Logged
Old Flinnt
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2011, 12:57:18 am »

E6, now known as Flinntville, used to be a sandbox that I fenced most of. I decided to open up the continent to the public. It was not long before a player or two, excited about a continent free of government grass, moved in. All was right with the world.

Flinnt, if you care to comment, tell everyone how excited you were at having dang near (and eventually all of) a continent to yourself. Was it your dream come true? How long had you waited to have a continent? Did you enjoy having it?

Actually it wasn't dang near all of it. It WAS all of it. It was very exciting for me yes. I had wanted to fence my own continent for a very long time, since I knew it was possible. I enjoyed it very much, but then the reality set in that I had more land than I would ever use and I started playing less frequently. Instead of keeping my sandbox sealed off from the world for eternity and not have it be used, I decided to create Flinntville and keep a portion of it for myself.

It was also another goal of mine to eventually create a community similar to Jorgland or to your retirement community but one in which I would not have to monitor and control myself, on where people can just come and go whenever and however they please. Gov't grass allowed for me to do and I did it to my continent willingly. The gov't did not even suggest it to me, it was my own idea, something I wanted to do.
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clatra
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 08:39:38 pm »

Flinnt, so you admit it was exciting, you wanted to fence your own continent for a very long time, and you enjoyed it very much. So why are you denying others the chance for something exciting, that they want, and that they will enjoy? There is PLENTY of land already grassed. And PLENTY of open land. You could have kept some land for yourself and opened the rest of the continent to others ungrassed.

I am armchair quarterbacking/psychologizing here but 100% of the continent was under your control to do with as long as you controlled it. I think grassing it was your attempt to control others. What that says about you is another story. But you deserve the label of sandbox hater.

So to those in power: how many more arbitrary ways will TW become less sandboxy? I mean we have claustrophobic hoards which are ridiculous, claustrophobic fencing which is silly, limits on idol level in CW which are unnecessary, limits on which birds can be on islands which is ludicrous, gov't grass being put down but usually smart people, the list goes on. TRUST THE PLAYERS, for the love of all that is sandboxy. And by the players I mean those playing today, not the theoretical people who will join the community sometime in the near future, need to jump immediately, shun using noob world for anything, and demand land for a starter base the next day. One in the hand is worth two in the bush.
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Old Flinnt
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 10:07:51 pm »

What would stop someone from just fencing the border of the continent, closing it off again if it went ungrassed? You also only took part of what I said and looked into that. Based on your response it sounds like you failed to read the 2nd paragraph of my post, so please reread that.

To the psycho-babble issue, how would grassing enable me to control others? If anything, it lessens my ability to because now that I am no longer a Viceroy, I am surrounded by borders that I can do nothing to control. No, I'm sorry Dr. Freud, the last thing I want to do is control people. Hell I even explicitly said I didn't want to control it in the previously noted 2nd paragraph above.
Citation: Flinnt (2011), pg. 1, To All the Sandboxes I've Love Before, Vol 1, Ed 1

Hell to make it less sandboxy, why don't we just remove ranking too. Health is also really limiting, you can only do so many actions before you die (so annoying!). And it's such a shame that I can't keep every single item I own in a single hoard on my island along with my tree idols and every bird that allows for tactical advantages. I mean come on, where is the fun in not being able to do all of those things??? Sheesh it's like we have to build fencing to protect our stuff, keep it in realistically sized hoards, limit ourselves on CW so that we actually have to jump off at some point if we want to continue to the actual real part of the game, force ourselves to go off our island to get certain birds, and use a government designed feature to prevent land hogs from owning several continents to him or HERself, not to be shared with the community and never to be opened again for the years to come. COME ON TRUST THE PLAYERS!
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clatra
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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2011, 11:38:55 pm »

I own no continents. I control parts of some. Note that I DO NOT CONTROL A SINGLE CONTINENT BY MYSELF although the future is uncertain on a piece of land I recently came into.

I have controlled continents before but I tend to open them up to folks who would find them exciting and enjoyable (ahem) or give them to trusted people.

I read every word of your post. Your goal was to create a community -- a community that limits the shape of bases. I understand the motivation, truly I do. I am saying it is unnecessary considering how many other continents have been grassed and have land available (and the gov't does not look to be stopping anytime soon, Crazyman's fences be damned).

Note that Jorgland, by Twisti's own admission, and in similar fashion as the dozens of attempts by others to create noob apartments or the like, has failed. It/they fail because TW's retention rate is below 1%. Stating the obvious here but TW is not for everyone and, as I have insisted for years, folks who stick around do so for specific reasons. Reasons like sandboxiness, challenge, uniqueness, and depth.

For the record my retirement communities focus on retaining players who have been around a long time. Their retention rate is about 20% including evictions I have served.
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« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2011, 12:20:09 am »

I crafted a long, well thought out reply that I was sure would inspire great discussion over these issues. But I didn't post it. Because when it comes down to it, I only really have one point to make. Well. Two.

Never once have I stopped and said, "Man, I am disappointed with the shape of this base." because how petty would it be to fuss over the shape of the land instead of having the land itself. I'm too busy worrying about aging trees to argue the aesthetics of a square over a rectangle.

Older players don't need to be retained with special condos because if they've made it this long they'll play it until they get bored with it. Which is why we have people like Travis and Twisti coding exciting new features and people who actually care about the community making suggestions for new things instead of getting huffy and complaining.

Edit: Twisti requests to be considered huffy and complaining as well. Go figure.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 12:25:03 am by [FFFUUUU]Pending » Logged

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8:59:41 pm OUCH!! [FFFUUUU]Pending got an annoying popup farming.
8:57:23 pm OUCH!! [FFFUUUU]Pending got an annoying popup farming.

They ARE annoying.
clatra
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« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 01:07:22 am »

I'm too busy worrying about aging trees to argue the aesthetics of a square over a rectangle.
I am not arguing that bases should be a certain shape, quite the opposite. I am arguing that gov't grass is not necessary and is probably ruining some players' dreams.

I also consider constructive criticism (aka complaints, I guess) about the long-term implications of knee-jerk decisions more important than whether Travis will release apples or oranges next. Gov't grass is an important debate because it is so strongly tied to one "end game" of TW that many players strive for: control of an entire continent. If that is less and less likely to happen, there becomes one less thing to strive for and one less reason to play once you become god.

Certain admins believe, even if they have controlled entire continents themselves, that it is not right for others to do the same. There are even a handful of players who agree, with a common refrain going something like: "I cannot imagine why someone would need an entire continent for themselves" (to which I would like to respond: "then you have a crappy imagination".).

I believe there are 23 continents -- do you think there are 23 active players? Even if there were 46 active players, do you think some players should have a shot at controlling a continent? Call me huffy all you want but do the freaking math.

If you are 100% certain, without a doubt, that you will never ever want a continent for yourself, I guess you can ignore the debate.
 Wink
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« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2011, 01:23:03 am »

I'm pretty sure he's releasing apples next. I mean, he hasn't even said anything about oranges, where did you even come up with that. But I believe he mentioned apples not long ago, so I'm putting my money on apples.
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But who knows really? The problem with forums/discussions like this is everyone thinks they know all the answers, everyone loves to propose solutions or debate their overall worthiness. But in reality, not much actually happens with all that talk and debate.
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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2011, 01:26:41 am »

So many good points being made. I'll just keep my opinions simple. I am still new, I only registered 3 months ago. But I have taken an active role in the community, particularly in the newer community while trying to understand and help spice things up for veterans, and I can say I see no issues with grass. It's not because I "lack the imagination" to want a whole continent, but because I feel it creates a greater sense of community, which is something I believe in. As much as I would love to have a lot of land, I wouldn't want to have a continent all to myself or share one. I like having  neighbors, I like walking around and visiting bases if someone will have me. I don't want to become one of those players who rots away alone on a continent, only to randomly come out of the wood work every other month. I don't claim to speak for the players or their dreams, but I think I have a good understanding. And as I said in my Viceroy post, I'm all for discussion. If I am wrong, and government grass is indeed ruining someones hopes and dreams, please please please post or PM me and I will do my best to brainstorm with everyone and talk more to reach a solution that makes Toadwater the best possible gaming experience.

Thanks for reading.
~Viceroy Excalibus
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Arya of Winterfell
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« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2011, 08:43:07 pm »

If it weren't for Flinnt, I wouldn't even be playing Toadwater anymore. He gave me a base, when I was baseless. I don't know the whole story so I can't argue to the best of my abilities for Flinnt as I would like to. Not that I have to. He's helped out countless players.

The argument of him having acquired a base and then spacing out different plots of land in the base using government grass. It gives some character to the plotting of land which he has and spread out for other players to use. I'm sure if they had a problem with how it was spread out... I'm sure they would have said something about it themselves.

I've never once thought, "Oh, this base is too rectangular and one of the corners shoots off in an odd direction... this has ruined my dreams of how I envisioned them in my head." I'm happy to just find land when I do. Usually, it does take an odd shape because of previous owners in the vicinity.

What this really comes down to is... you don't like what was done with your old base now that you've acquired it back. If you don't like it, fix it and stop bitching about how things used to be. This game is all about everything you complain about. If it weren't you wouldn't be able to do it. The Viceroys would be out in full force, enforcing those rules. Flinnt, did what he wanted with his continent. Yes, that he usurped from you, but that should not and doesn't mean that it can't be corrected. All I see is a little girl that is still pissed that her sandbox got taken away when she has other sandboxes, perhaps tinier but still she had sandboxes to play with. This game is an opportunist game. Flinnt seized on an opportunity when he saw it. Like you have done now.

I've lost countless bases. I've lost 3 continents because I've just been unable to play for long periods of time to up keep them. I've lost them to time and cracks in my defense. I've never lost a base while I've been playing. Which is what I've seen from bases that are acquired. It's usually taken from someone that has been inactive for some period of time. A part of their fences fall and in swoops a force of people that are looking for land. In most cases they need that land because there were no sandboxes for them. Or they had a very very tiny sandbox. I'm not saying this is true of all cases. Some people just enjoy raiding and make it a sport. It's all part of this game and that's what makes it great IMO. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. The thing that I hate most is that it feels like you are just shoving peoples noses in it. I have no problem with anyone.

I can't stand when people who play and love this game as much as I know you do Clarta... just go off in tangents and rants because they want I don't even know what you want... What was the point of this post? Seriously, to defame Flinnt... An objection over government grass, you needing to release your anger about your continent being stolen however long ago and finally you get a little revenge and want to rub Flinnt's nose in it like a bad dog that shit on the carpet. I just don't get it. I want to say grow up. That's what I feel like saying but everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter what opinion that really is. I know that you have the capacity to talk like a normal person without getting flustered about trivial matters but you never seem to do that. I'm not saying that this is a trivial matter but the way you put it across to people... it makes it one.

Arya  Kiss
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clatra
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« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2011, 02:20:21 am »

I don't know the whole story
You could have stopped there.

But because you didn't, here is the whole story. Bryan made the Greenhouse/Whittler family quit TW. Their family gave me all their accounts and land. Since they were the best land-acquirers that TW has ever seen, I suddenly had over 7 continents of land. Yep, 7. Probably a record, but I digress.

I opened one of the (less-contentious) continents to the public. Flinnt beat out others and negotiated for control of the land. Flinnt enjoyed having the land.

More recently, Flinnt put gov't grass all over the continent. The continent he controlled, the continent that I freely gave away. In no way did I have any claim on that land.

There were several purposes of this thread but one of them was to get Flinnt to talk about how much he enjoyed having a continent for himself and explain why he hypocritically did not want anyone else to have the whole continent. It has nothing to do with whether Flinnt is a nice guy, but I am glad you think he is. I think he is one of the nicer, and smarter, players in TW but his concept of Flinntville is misguided.

The more important purposes of the thread include continuing the discussion about is how much grass is enough, what is the purpose of the grass, and if it is generally acceptable for a single player to control a continent. Because if the admins feel all continents should be grassed then ... wow.
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